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Topic: Question regarding DS/VB |
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kj smooth |
Posted: 01-Jul-10 16:46 |
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This is half a rip and the other half, a serious question. I do know that at some casinos around the world or the US (whatever) that 'no more bets' is called before the ball is spun. I would bet my nuts, the percentage of these casinos is SMALL. Question being.....if DS was this great way to play (you could make millions! :thumbsup:) why not have this rule at every casino?
It would save the casino ALOT of money, no? So many people (cough) have this skill of watching the dealers release point, rotor speed etc., it would make more sense to wave of betting EARLY. Also, how would the hidden computers be used if such a rule was enforced? >> Everyone gets 15-20 seconds to lay bets, no more bets is called. Then the ball is spun. Why does the casino NOT take more counter measures against such an EASY way to win? (cough) Ken |
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sherminator |
Posted: 01-Jul-10 17:09 |
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Based on all the years of my roulette play, when the dealer calls "no more bets" it is like waving a red flag at a bull, lol.
The casino would lose a fortune if they did not allow bets right up until the last few seconds. If they suspect any AP activity, then no doubt they can take appropriate action, but I could never see a blanket ban on getting bets down in the last few seconds.
It is amazing watching people rush to cover the gaps in their bet and still see the ball land in a next door number more often than not. |
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kj smooth |
Posted: 01-Jul-10 17:54 |
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"The casino would lose a fortune" >>> Assuming I agree with that (I dont), it would be peanuts compared to the MILLIONS that the AP (cough) guys would no longer be making. Ken |
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Kelly |
Posted: 01-Jul-10 23:53 |
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There is a lot of action after the ball is spun and DS/VB is not that common in the casinos. If someone appears to be able to take a piece of the cake using the time after the ball is spun, they can always cut down on the NMB time.
If the dealers are following the rule of releasing the ball from the last fallen number, a DS player can place his bets before the ball is spun. Plenty of dealers spin the wheel in a very staedy pace, only 2 weeks ago i had one spinning 30 spins in each of his shifts between 2.95 - 3,10 seconds pr. rev. Even a DS system would have a slight advantage if the wheel had a significant tilt, (which it hadn`t).
My experience is that you get the best conditions with the relaxed type male dealers between 40 - 50. Steady wheel speeds, steady ball throws, late NMBs, cool chatting etc. |
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kj smooth |
Posted: 02-Jul-10 11:11 |
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"DS/VB is not that common in the casinos" >>> Are we talking number of players or are we talking about money made from DS/VB? According to Snowman/Herb, its in the MILLIONS! It sure seems to me, the casinos would do something (other than a ban) to eliminate the millions it is dishing out to you AP (cough) guys. Ken |
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sherminator |
Posted: 02-Jul-10 11:23 |
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There is another point to this which I am sure could easily get overlooked.
The casino is out to get your money, FACT. We all agree on this point. In order to do this, the casino have to slowly turn you from a controlled gambler to a wreckless gambler over a period of time. ONE of the MANY ways of doing this is to allow you to place bets practically right up till the ball falls in the winning number. Players get into the habit of doing this and it turns them into a gambler with no control. By having a rigid cut off point where you have no more bets and then spin the ball, you are not really getting to take advantage of the customers lack of willpower. A gambler with no control is worth a fortune to a casino over the years. This is a very cynical and cold outlook, however it is certainly an outlook that the casinos as a money making business have no hesitation in employing to create a clientele that will lose a lot more than the expected average over the years.
[Edited by sherminator on 02-Jul-10 11:36] |
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kj smooth |
Posted: 02-Jul-10 11:42 |
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"A gambler with no control is worth a fortune to a casino over the years" >>> And what do you think would happen if the casino started that new rule......no more bets, then the ball is spun. Ken |
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kj smooth |
Posted: 02-Jul-10 12:33 |
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I should be more clear. In terms of the PLAYERS that would not like this NEW rule. They now do what, in your opinion? Keep in mind, the AP (cough) guys are now out of luck and the casino saves MILLIONS. Ken |
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sherminator |
Posted: 02-Jul-10 12:59 |
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Ken, the bottom line is that every casino will have a policy for dealing with AP players, this will depend on how much they impact on casino profits.
To give you an example, I know one AP player who brings in a lot of revenue for one particular casino and as long as he does not get greedy, he is allowed to play his chosen game. Another AP player who visits the same casino is now banned from playing his game of choice because it is not considered economically viable from the standpoint of casino management.
No doubt some other casinos will have a ZERO tolerance level towards AP players.
Why would you need to bring in a sweeping new rule change to antagonize a lot of the players.
AP play has existed in one form or another throughout the history of gaming. Get over it. |
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Kelly |
Posted: 02-Jul-10 13:41 |
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"Numbers of VB players or millions"
I haven`t heard of any large hits in the Ritz style class since the Ritz, but i believe its a combo of the casinos being aware of what is going on and the AP`s trying to remain anonymous by winning more slowly and hidden and getting the money out of the casino in alternatively ways than just cashing out.
After the Ritz, no casino surveillance team will be the next to be responsible for such a loss again. They won`t easyli get a job again.
There are still teams and single persons operating professional or semi professionals but the ones that i know of, also has other financial interests. The AP scouts also has other incomes.
I know what your "AP" agenda is, and its fine by me. I know i can`t change anyones opinion on AP and im not even trying, but you asked a question and i answered. |
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laurance |
Posted: 02-Jul-10 15:12 |
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$2,000 here, $5,000 there. After a while it adds up to real money.
There have been a few really big scores that were not publicized, but generally "millions" have been taken out over time by a collection of many different people.
The trick is to not only be able to do it, but be able to survive to do it again.
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kj smooth |
Posted: 02-Jul-10 16:36 |
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"I know one AP player who brings in a lot of revenue for one particular casino" >>> Thats another part of the MATH I forgot all about, riding coattails. Lets say a few of the other non-AP (cough) players start to notice an AP (cough) player really kicking ass. What usually happens guys? Others putting their chips where he is betting. So *NOW* we have multiple players bringing in thousands? Just so I understand, the casino then says, "oh well, we'll have to keep an eye on them". (??) Ken |
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sherminator |
Posted: 02-Jul-10 16:41 |
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I was referring more to BJ and when some people think they have an edge, they kinda like to bet the farm on it, lol. Not such a good idea on a hand to hand basis, but like Snowman says, they don't claim to be mathboyz. |
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kj smooth |
Posted: 02-Jul-10 16:43 |
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"I know what your "AP" agenda is, and its fine by me. I know i can`t change anyones opinion on AP and im not even trying, but you asked a question and i answered" >>> Thanks for answering Kelly (and others), very cool. I get no financial gain by putting down AP (cough), just so you understand that.
I get no financial gain if someone uses a progression or flat betting. I dont have to study a heck of alot when I see a ball spun. Usually (not always) that ball is fu**in bouncing everywhere. Sometimes so fast, I get a bit dizzy trying to follow it with my eyes, lol. Too many variables man, way too many. Ken |
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Nathan Detroit |
Posted: 02-Jul-10 16:52 |
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Ken ,
If I were you I would get some medication for that " cough". LOL |
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laurance |
Posted: 02-Jul-10 17:17 |
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<<<Lets say a few of the other non-AP (cough) players start to notice an AP (cough) player really kicking ass. What usually happens guys? Others putting their chips where he is betting. >>>
Ken, you vastly over estimate the intelligence of your average Roulette player. It almost seems as if most players consider it a "sin" to give up their numbers and ride someone else's coattails. It has happened, but it is rare. Even when people see me on a killer streak and comment, "I should be betting where you're betting", they don't. It's really odd, I admit, but it is certainly my experience.
Here's a funny story. I was doing an AP play many years ago, and in a casino that I had frequented many times. There was another regular player (let's call him "Earl") that frequented the table I liked to play, but he never said a word to me over the course of several years.
One night, I went on a tear. There are just nights when it all works. I couldn't lose.
Well, Earl lost over $1,000. He was betting the opposite of what I was betting.
We both left the table about the same time, so I went up to him and asked: "Earl, what on earth made you bet against me tonight?"
Earl's response was classic: "I've seen you come in here and win so often, I figured tonight your luck was bound to change."
True story.
[Edited by laurance on 02-Jul-10 17:19] |
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kj smooth |
Posted: 03-Jul-10 08:31 |
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I guess I see it here alot. When I am doing very well with a method, there are people here that will not lay down one chip UNTIL I do first. Kind of a compliment but it does piss me off none the less. Ken |
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A Wolf |
Posted: 03-Jul-10 10:42 |
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"Even when people see me on a killer streak and comment, "I should be betting where you're betting", they don't. It's really odd, I admit, but it is certainly my experience"
I'll second that, seems that the majority of people want to bet against my bets, even if ive been winning bets consistantly. I suppose its human nature. I just look down/away from them, and act surprised that my luck is going so good!
Wolf |
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pigsglide |
Posted: 14-Jul-10 11:48 |
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I would also have to agree with peoples own ego's and lucky numbers. I have been using a device for beating roulette for 7 years that I purchased in the UK, broke it twice and had it repaired, left one in a motel room 
No matter how well I do, no one jumps on my numbers, they all believe in themselves. Its getting harder though, casinos are not stupid and making big wins attracts attention. Ball changing is common practice without you knowing, so be warned device users and VB players.
With DS/VB why bother when you can take the human predictive element out and use a device that is legal in most places in the world and not have to rely on an element of luck or state at the wheel overtly.
Its simply having the best tools for the job and before all you VB freaks tell me how good you are and do not need devices xxx xxxxxx
Even the Ritz team were found with devices, although no one knows how they was deployed, the VB fraternity would like to believe that this is all they used, but its not the case as I use to work in the casino industry and have inside information.
[Edited by snowman on 20-Jul-10 17:02] |
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kj smooth |
Posted: 14-Jul-10 17:07 |
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I dont get the joke, you should double check your link. Ken |
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pigsglide |
Posted: 14-Jul-10 17:59 |
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I am lost here too, what is the joke? |
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forester |
Posted: 14-Jul-10 18:16 |
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It is not a joke or wrong link,
He was one of the best soccer players in the world.
Won golden boot at world cup in France as the best scorer.
He won in Ritz casino at roulette, it was even published in Croatian media, but I know it and a bit more from the other source.
P.S.
I found when it happened, it was last summer.
http://rouletteplace.com/index.php/topic,465.msg6381.html#msg6381
[Edited by forester on 14-Jul-10 18:27]
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pigsglide |
Posted: 14-Jul-10 18:29 |
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thanks for the link Forester, very interesting! |
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kj smooth |
Posted: 14-Jul-10 18:32 |
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I had this same arguement with Snowman yesterday at VLS. I dont care the guy plays soccer. How do I know the story is TRUE? I have said this before, I'll say it again.....I am NOT saying that its impossible regarding VB/searching for a tilted wheel. I'm concerned with the VERY SMALL odds (hundreds of hours put in) of finding a tilted wheel or clocking wheels, VB/DS etc. Call it what you will. Time put in COMPARED to what you MIGHT get out of it???? Ken |
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kj smooth |
Posted: 15-Jul-10 01:08 |
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"If you want proof that VB is real" >>> Nope, for the 9th time. I want 'proof' that YOU are doing VERY WELL playing it. When can we all see that EVIDENCE? Ken |
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snowman |
Posted: 15-Jul-10 01:42 |
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Mr. J.,
What I and others above have posted above is about all your going to see released to the public on this board regarding VB. We intentionally filter material on sensative subjects around people like yourself.
If you want prove that Santa Claus exists, then go to the North Pole.
If you want prove that AP players like us exist, then get an education, grow up, demonstrate that you are someone that people can respect and trust, and then travel out West.
Unfortunately, right now, you're running just a little low on the moral fiber scale, you regularly brag that your ignorant regarding math, and you appear to drink just a bit too much.
For now, you should just stick to gambling systems like the Martingale or something from LTW.
-Snowman
[Edited by snowman on 15-Jul-10 01:45] |
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forester |
Posted: 15-Jul-10 02:01 |
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Full story is that soccer player is shit player for roulette but he loves to play it.
Since he was one of world the best players “Real Madrid” he was loaded with money and could afford it.
Often just for fun he would lose $20-30k in one night.
Until….. someone told him how to do it properly.
The post link is about time when it happened.
Roulette is like sex. You lean something at 16y and believe you are the best lover, few years after you learn more and you again think same and again and again.
Some people learn basic principles of tilted wheel and believe they are experts.
You can’t be a VB expert until you place at least one million $ on table.
[Edited by forester on 15-Jul-10 02:02] |
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kj smooth |
Posted: 16-Jul-10 00:47 |
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"What I and others above have posted above is about all your going to see released to the public on this board regarding VB" >>> Regarding VB? Now you are pawning in another direction Snowman. I'm not asking the 'OTHER' AP players....just you.
I'm NOT asking about the mysteries and 'material' and craftsmanship that goes into VB. I am asking for EVIDENCE that *YOU* are doing well using it. When can we expect to see that? Oh thats right, I should book a flight! ROFL "If you want prove that AP players like us exist" >>> Nope, not looking for that. Ken |
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snowman |
Posted: 16-Jul-10 01:02 |
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Mr. J.,
Last week, I went fishing and caught a fish this ..................big!
However, when it comes to talking about roulette wins, I'm not going to discuss them on a public messageboard.
Feel free to tell us about your own fish stories and about your own great roulette wins.
Best of Luck,
Snowman
[Edited by snowman on 16-Jul-10 01:11] |
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kj smooth |
Posted: 16-Jul-10 01:12 |
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Dont you play by the SAME rules? Why ask others to show proof/evidence, when you will NOT? I love the consistency. "When it comes to talking about roulette wins, I'm not going to discuss them on a public messageboard" >>> I'm not asking for your bank account number or a SS#. You sure like to wiggle your way out of questions. ROFL Better you than me. Ken |
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snowman |
Posted: 16-Jul-10 01:22 |
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There's logic and proof that AP methods like VB are real.
There is also proof that roulette systems do NOT work. Such proof exists in encyclopedias.
The reason we ask you for proof is because you make bewildering claims about systems that the encyclopedias, mathematicians, and common sense tells us are impossible, while bragging that you don't comprehend math.
Understand?
I'll just assume that the answer is no.
Best of luck,
Snowman
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kj smooth |
Posted: 16-Jul-10 01:28 |
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"There's logic and proof that AP methods like VB are real" >>> I'm not asking if they are real. "The reason we ask you for proof is because you make bewildering claims" >>> I'm not asking why you ask me for proof. I am asking for EVIDENCE that *YOU* are doing well using it. When can we all expect to see it? Ken |
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snowman |
Posted: 16-Jul-10 01:31 |
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Mr. J, Refer to post: 16-Jul-10 01:02 |
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forester |
Posted: 16-Jul-10 01:33 |
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@ Snowman
Is it truth that you changed your mind about testing Stefanos computer? |
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forester |
Posted: 16-Jul-10 01:49 |
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What is the point if he sends you DVD video if you can’t test computer to see if it does all what he claims?
He is writing around forums how you refusing to test his computer. |
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snowman |
Posted: 16-Jul-10 01:50 |
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I will test it if he sends the computer. A cd or video proves nothing. |
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forester |
Posted: 16-Jul-10 02:39 |
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Of course |
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kj smooth |
Posted: 16-Jul-10 05:53 |
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Dont you play by the SAME rules? Why ask others to show proof/evidence, when you will NOT? I love the consistency. "When it comes to talking about roulette wins, I'm not going to discuss them on a public messageboard" >>> I'm not asking for your bank account number or a SS#. You sure like to wiggle your way out of questions. ROFL Better you than me. Ken |
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Nathan Detroit |
Posted: 16-Jul-10 08:53 |
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>>>>>>> my roulette computer has been tested by casino<<<<<<<<Forester
Would you please clarify this sentence: They way I read into it ****THE COMPUTER WAS TESTED BY A CASINO AND SOON PURCHASED IT******
This sounds a bit preposterous for a casino purchasing your computer contraption.
Nathan Detroit
HAPPY WINNINGS!!!
[Edited by Nathan Detroit on 16-Jul-10 09:26] |
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Nathan Detroit |
Posted: 16-Jul-10 09:52 |
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Whatever it is you did NOT give a straight reply to my question .
You and the other fellow you are accusing of being a scammer are of the same low life breed.
You are a liar unless you give me the address of the casino allegedly having purchased your computer so I can verify it with them.
You guys are nothing but a bunch of egomaniac bull shitters.You are looking for suckers .
WE DON`T NEED YOUR KIND !NEITHER YOU OR THAT STEFANO OR STEVE .You are a bunch of lying THIEVES .
Scammers are the lowest species in the world of gambling. You can sell it to hicks in the outback but not to sophisticated wise guys
here in the USA.
No wonder Snowman told you to F..CK OFF
We are wise to your Balkan mentality.
Nathan Detroit
`
[Edited by Nathan Detroit on 16-Jul-10 10:01] |
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Nathan Detroit |
Posted: 16-Jul-10 10:30 |
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It it walks like a duck ,if it quacks like a duck , it is a duck.
I understand scammer language LOUD and CLEAR. You scammers are upset when your game is recognized and you are defending this slimy activity to the hilt.
N.D.
[Edited by Nathan Detroit on 16-Jul-10 11:27] |
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kj smooth |
Posted: 16-Jul-10 11:34 |
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"you did NOT give a straight reply to my question" >>> You sound like me Nate. lol Ken |
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snowman |
Posted: 16-Jul-10 11:39 |
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I've never called Forester a scammer. |
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kj smooth |
Posted: 16-Jul-10 11:40 |
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I never promised you a rose garden. |
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kj smooth |
Posted: 16-Jul-10 21:16 |
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"Long time ago my roulette computer has been tested by casino, it is public review, soon after they purchased and the other one, many advantage players on vls know everything about it" >>> @Forester.....On this thread, I did NOT question anybodys device. I'm only asking Snowman in terms of him winning or not. Ken
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kj smooth |
Posted: 16-Jul-10 21:17 |
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@Snowman >> I'm NOT asking about the mysteries and 'material' and craftsmanship that goes into VB. I am asking for EVIDENCE that *YOU* are doing well using it. When can we expect to see that? Ken |
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Nathan Detroit |
Posted: 17-Jul-10 03:00 |
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What I have gathered is that some new and apparently more player friendly wheels have been or are being installed by the casinos which might bring back some life for VB .
This might best be discussed with our VB specialists if they care to do so.
Nathan Detroit
HAPPY WINNINGS!!!
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kj smooth |
Posted: 17-Jul-10 19:14 |
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@Snowman >> I'm NOT asking about the mysteries and 'material' and craftsmanship that goes into VB. I am asking for EVIDENCE that *YOU* are doing well using it. When can we expect to see that? Ken |
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snowman |
Posted: 17-Jul-10 20:57 |
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Why is my personel success at roulette any of your business Mr. J.?
When we discuss the advantage to be had by visual ballistic methods, we back up our statements with logic, physics, and examples in some cases.
The reason we ask you for proof that your system really works is because you make bewildering claims about systems that the encyclopedias, mathematicians, and common sense tells us are impossible, while bragging that you don't comprehend math.
Understand?
However, if you're up for a roulette challenge, then I'm in LV and I might consider it if you're willing to put up to make it interesting.
I'm cautious about meeting people with low moral fiber, so you will have to find a way to make the challenge interesting and find a way to convince me that it's safe to meet someone like yourself.
-Snowman
[Edited by snowman on 17-Jul-10 21:01] |
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kj smooth |
Posted: 17-Jul-10 21:11 |
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"Why is my personel success at roulette any of your business Mr.J" >>> Very simple. Because you have attempted in the past (and I'm sure in the future) for others (method players) to prove THEIR 'personal success' with you and others reading the posts, thats why. Dont ask others, if YOU DO NOT want or will not post EVIDENCE of your play, winnings or no winnings. "When we discuss the advantage to be had by visual ballistic methods, we back up our statements with logic, physics, and examples in some cases" >>> Do you back up your statements with a fat bank account? Anyone can say yes moron. Ken
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snowman |
Posted: 17-Jul-10 21:36 |
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KJ,
When people such as yourself make baseless claims without a shred of proof, then people such as myself have every right to question such absurd claims.
There is a difference between claims that I make, and the claims that you make.
When people such as myself discuss the advantage to be had by visual ballistic methods, we back up our statements with logic, physics, and examples in some cases.
The reason we ask you for proof that your system really works is because you make bewildering claims about systems that the encyclopedias, mathematicians, and common sense tells us are impossible, while bragging that you don't comprehend math.
We don't ask you for your private information, just some kind of proof that your "system" is sound, rather than the baseless claims that you foolishly make on a regular basis.
Understand?
-Snowman
[Edited by snowman on 18-Jul-10 05:51] |
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kj smooth |
Posted: 17-Jul-10 21:48 |
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"When people such as yourself make baseless claims" >>> Such as? Dont be vague please. "When we discuss the advantage to be had by visual ballistic methods, we back up our statements with logic, physics, and examples in some cases" >>> Do you back up your statements with a fat bank account?
So AGAIN, you will not answer. Where is *YOUR* evidence Snowman/Herb that you are doing well as a VB player? Not asking what you play!!! We all got that part already, like 30 posts ago. We get it, VB...ok, ok. What is your EVIDENCE that you do well with it? Its analogy time I see.
Its like me saying that I have studied painting for many years, even went to an arts college. Boy-o-boy am I good at it! I have not made a million dollars nor have you ever seen any of my paintings on-line or at an auction but I am great at it! Can I prove I am a great painter with stupid conversations over the internet? Of course not, nor can you PROVE you do well with AP/VB. Ken |
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snowman |
Posted: 18-Jul-10 05:18 |
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Ken,
I don't know why you're so obsessed with how well I'm doing at the tables, or how much I have in my bank accounts. I've also noticed that you appear bitter and jealous of how you imagine others are doing at the game. I suspect that it's because you are experiencing some tough times at the game of roulette and that it's triggering your hateful mood. (I could be completely wrong, so please don't take it personally.)
I think it's time that you, perhaps, give the game a break for a while, and focus more of your time and energy on work, family and friends. You should also consider turning your computer off for a while.
Maybe we'll see the funny and friendly Ken return after a vacation.
Best of Luck,
Snowman.
[Edited by snowman on 18-Jul-10 06:16] |
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Kelly |
Posted: 18-Jul-10 06:40 |
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Ken, snowman has announced twice when he was in Atlantic and now in LV. Just go see him and see what you make of it. |
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Nathan Detroit |
Posted: 18-Jul-10 08:22 |
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Kelly,
From some locations it is not possible to reach let`s say Atlantic City. On my plane junkets it took 55 minutesfrom here to the AC internat`l airpost. ( if not comped it was $ 100.)No more junkets available.
Today I cannot even connect to AC.The nearest connection would be Philadelphia via Washington DC or North Carolina. Then one would need a bus connection from Phildelphia ( 150 km). Airfare $ 1, 100.-- plus bus fare.
The problem lies with those hubs. Even on trips to Europe some airlines shift you first to Chicago which is 1,600 west of us here on the east coast.
From LV to AC no problem or vice versa.
Nothing is so simple as one would like to see it.
Nathan Detroit
HAPPY WINNINGS!!!
This would be like if you wanted to fly from Copenhagen to Nice.
SAS from Copenhagen to Oslo then SAS to Paris , change airlines and then to Nice.
Some things are easier said than done in this modern age of airline cattle transport.
[Edited by Nathan Detroit on 18-Jul-10 09:59] |
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Kelly |
Posted: 18-Jul-10 11:02 |
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Well, its not that hard to get to Nice, but i know what you mean.
What i mean, is that snow is giving 2 open invitations to watch, so i can`t see he can be blamed if Ken or someone else is not showing up. It will be THE day when spike does the same. |
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kj smooth |
Posted: 18-Jul-10 13:32 |
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"I don't know why you're so obsessed with how well I'm doing at the tables" >>> I answered that already. Its because you slam others when they dont prove they do (if) well playing. Ken |
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kj smooth |
Posted: 18-Jul-10 13:36 |
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You're not following me Kelly. My request is for him to stop bashing others. He could be doing GREAT for all I know, not my concern. Its not even an issue if I believe him, thats not the point I'm after. Ken |
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snowman |
Posted: 18-Jul-10 14:44 |
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Ken,
It's called constructive criticism. |
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kj smooth |
Posted: 18-Jul-10 16:19 |
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No problem. Then you should have zero issues if its shot back at you, correct? (be consistent) Ken |
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Kelly |
Posted: 18-Jul-10 22:33 |
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Close the door and turn the lights out when you two are done, all right ? |
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Stefano |
Posted: 18-Jul-10 22:34 |
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>> Close the door and turn the lights out when you two are done, all right ?
It's a fluorescent. But ok. |
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